tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post6637841412151156858..comments2024-03-21T06:38:13.673-04:00Comments on Vegan Epicurean: An Uneventful but Good WednesdayVegan Epicureanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-48957447024826917062010-09-04T18:16:02.295-04:002010-09-04T18:16:02.295-04:00Jessy,
My question was "Does it matter why s...Jessy,<br /><br />My question was "Does it matter why someone comes to veganism?" and that is directly from the post. Others hijacked the post with their opinions that in most cases didn't respond to the question. <br /><br />I will let Brandi reply for herself.<br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-1270562382340333472010-09-04T18:09:19.120-04:002010-09-04T18:09:19.120-04:00If that's all you were trying to say, then tha...If that's all you were trying to say, then that's obvious...I don't think anyone would disagree with that.<br /><br />Brandi:<br />Veganism isn't a religion, but a way of living life according to a certain set of beliefs as to what constitutes right and wrong. The fact that it would be extremely difficult to achieve in 100% purity is obvious and not the issue, which why I use the words "strive for". <br /><br />World peace or the end of poverty will almost surely never happen either, but that doesn't mean we should not strive for those things.<br /><br />If a person posts about a potentially controversial topic on the Internet for anyone to see and invites discussion around it, then they should be willing to hear from and discuss the issue with people who may have differing points of view. If not, what is the point of inviting discussion? Or that's what I would have thought anyway.JessyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000586746029065654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-14305472293215637852010-09-04T17:53:08.731-04:002010-09-04T17:53:08.731-04:00Brandi,
I think that however people come to vegan...Brandi,<br /><br />I think that however people come to veganism that is a wonderful thing. It is shame not everyone sees it that way. ;-)<br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-26373411725366025112010-09-04T17:46:05.132-04:002010-09-04T17:46:05.132-04:00Obviously some people need to chill out when it co...Obviously some people need to chill out when it comes to veganism. It is not a religion or a political field, therefore people shouldn't become irrational obsessive zealots. Personally, I think that if people do not care for what we write they can choose to not read us and go have a pout fit somewhere else. <br />As I stated before NO ONE CAN BE A TRUE VEGAN. There is no way to stay away from animal products completely therefore no one can claim they are a PURE VEGAN.crunchyveganwifelifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486855455879424793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-12478999251860374792010-09-04T17:17:47.077-04:002010-09-04T17:17:47.077-04:00Jessy,
People come to veganism from one of two pa...Jessy,<br /><br />People come to veganism from one of two paths, ethics or health. The point which I will restate is it doesn't matter why someone becomes a vegan just that they do. Labels are counterproductive.<br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-60089194156745190402010-09-04T17:11:17.123-04:002010-09-04T17:11:17.123-04:00But what on earth is a "health vegan?"
...But what on earth is a "health vegan?" <br /><br />If your point is that it doesn't matter how/by what path a person comes to be a vegan, then I agree.<br /><br />If you are trying to say that a person who doesn't eat animal products merely because it is good for their health and does not follow/adhere to the rest of the philosophy/lifestyle is still a vegan,then I don't agree.<br /><br />Veganism is a philosophy of ethics, it is motivated by compassion and respect...not by wanting to be "healthy." People strive to be vegan in the same way people strive to adhere to other ethical or religious tenants...it is an ideal, a philosophy, a path. It is not a health plan.<br /><br />Again, if a person attempts to follow the principles of veganism then they are vegan...health does not come into it. <br /><br />If a "health vegan" calls that out specifically, then I assume <i>they</i> are trying to distinguish <i>themselves</i> from actual vegans not vice versa. <br /><br />Namely, they are saying, "I am vegan for health, not for ethics", which doesn't make any sense.<br /><br />If a label doesn't apply, or if a person doesn't want to be taken for someone who does things for ethical reasons, then they should not calls themselves a vegan. <br /><br />I would submit that there is no such thing as a "health vegan".JessyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000586746029065654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-57986001734037420232010-09-04T16:40:44.937-04:002010-09-04T16:40:44.937-04:00JessyS,
This topic came up because there was an e...JessyS,<br /><br />This topic came up because there was an ethical vegan that thought vegans for health were somehow less vegan. Their argument was that there should be yet a different label for vegans that do so for health reasons. I don't think it matters why someone becomes vegan the end result is the same. By but drawing distinctions between ethical and health vegans we are creating an us versus them situation that never turns out well in the end. I think we are saying the same thing but in a different way.<br /><br />thanks for sharing your thoughts,<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-55884722628517118812010-09-04T16:13:30.916-04:002010-09-04T16:13:30.916-04:00It is worth noting that "vegan" is a lab...It is worth noting that "vegan" is a label that we give ourselves...it is not a label imposed on us by society because of what we look like, where we are from, or what religion we are.<br /><br />If a person is going to give themselves a label...whatever it may be...they should at least fit the description to a reasonable degree...or not label themselves in that way.<br /><br />I think the reason it is misleading to say that one is vegan for "health" reasons...is because there is a disconnect: a person can avoid eating animal products for the obvious health advantages, but what part of not wearing a leather belt or not buying a down comforter is "for health reasons"?<br /><br />If a person attempts to follow the principles of veganism, then they are vegan. End of story. Why make any distinction at all as to health or otherwise? It seems like the "health vegans" are the ones creating the divide...not the plain old vegans.<br /><br />Labels/names/descriptions either apply or do not apply; we cannot change the meaning or definition of a philosophy to suit our own preferences. And what is in a name anyway? Actions speak louder than words.JessyShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000586746029065654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-85514632113222269092010-09-04T09:45:31.714-04:002010-09-04T09:45:31.714-04:00Brandi,
Good luck getting ready for the wedding a...Brandi,<br /><br />Good luck getting ready for the wedding and reception. You have a lot on your plate right now. I am so happy you are feeling so much better. :-)<br /><br />Hmmmm, picadillo sounds good! Can't wait to hear how you make that healthy and vegan since I know you will do both. ;-)<br /><br />Have a great holiday weekend and I will talk to you later,<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-31836262105489749992010-09-04T09:39:11.575-04:002010-09-04T09:39:11.575-04:00I think we are very open minded hip chicks....LOL
...I think we are very open minded hip chicks....LOL<br />I am going to clean for my holiday weekend and get ready for the wedding and reception. I am thinking of trying to make a vegan version of picadillo...crunchyveganwifelifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486855455879424793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-49028722988461598012010-09-04T09:33:57.043-04:002010-09-04T09:33:57.043-04:00Brandi,
I have never liked labels or cliques even...Brandi,<br /><br />I have never liked labels or cliques even as a child. I think when we exclude others it creates emotional damage. In my mind setting up unnecessary distinctions of us versus them never does anything positive. I think we should focus on doing the right thing and stop trying to label things. Whether people are vegan for health or ethics the end result is the same the label changes nothing other than to hurt feelings and intentionally exclude people. Never good!<br /><br />Since you have a serious health challenge you are facing I know you understand the health aspects of this lifestyle. It is easy to overlook the health aspects of diet when you are young and healthy. However you are right that it is practically impossible to be 100% vegan no matter how hard you try. You drive a car or walk you kill bugs. You have a house, birds fly into the windows. You take pain relievers for a headache in a capsule it is made a gelatin. The medicine aspect is particularly interesting since all meds and procedures are tested on animals first. So if you get medical care of almost any type again not vegan. I agree with you that no one is 100% vegan so to want to create a separate “label” for healthy vegan is ridiculous, IMO.<br /><br />I will also say that I completely understand being willing to do anything to save your life or the life of someone you love. Until people are staring at their own mortality that concept is difficult to wrap your head around. You know how much I adore my husband. There is nothing I wouldn’t do to save him. <br /><br />I hope you have a great holiday weekend, hugs,<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-14999492882023456842010-09-04T08:42:25.943-04:002010-09-04T08:42:25.943-04:00Your smoothies are always awesome, and I love your...Your smoothies are always awesome, and I love your yummies too!!! <br />Now to talk about the stuff..<br />US VS THEM???? <br />This mentality truly causes the most damage in our society. Here is my honest take on this subject, and as you know, I pull no punches.. so here goes. <br /><br />There is no "100% VEGAN"....If you drive a car, buy clothes, eat unorganic, buy plastics, wear clothes from Wal-Mart, eat organic, wear hemp, wear glasses, own a pet, eat rice, live in a house or have a baby, there is going to be issues about if you are a true vegan or not. Some vegans believe if animals are kept as pets, you are no better than a slave master and therefore are not a vegan.. Personally, I find it ridiculous that someone (and I know who wrote the article) would try and segrogate themselves away from other vegans due to personal issues related to an us vs. them mentality.<br />Most people in these situations do not know what real life is. Would they choose a horse over their 3 month old baby if the choice had to be made, if the medication was made from a horse? Would they be able to look at the face of their child and tell that child, I am sorry you have to die, but mommy loves ponies? <br />I am very extremist on this subject. <br />I became a vegan for health reasons. Do I want to see an animal hurt or tortured? NO, but do I want to see children die, and people suffer terrible diseases that can be cured using research from animals, that is also a NO. When people want to stop whining about animal rights and sign up to become research studies, when people want to come up with better ways to find cures, instead of just temporary fixes, when people realize that WE CREATED OUR OWN DISEASES, OUR OWN MEDICAL ISSUES and step away from a holier than thou state of mind, then perhaps I will become a vegan zealot also. <br />US VS. THEM...."shakes head" Reminds me of Hitlers plan..... That worked out great.<br />BTW, just like THEM, I will not change my mind or be bullied into believing what they think is right..I have had the "up in my face" vegans over animal rights and I still feel this way. I DO NOT EAT ANIMALS, BUT, IF ONE COULD SAVE MY LIFE OR THE LIFE OF SOMEONE I LOVE, I WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET IN LINE.<br /><br />Well, That should drop my following rate by half. I will not be someone I am not because other people think I should. I also will not spout that I am a VEGAN and others should call themselves something different because I think they are not up to my standards...<br />UNBELIEVABLE!<br />:) That was a rant!crunchyveganwifelifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06486855455879424793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-42259339019600287782010-09-02T19:18:21.312-04:002010-09-02T19:18:21.312-04:00Jessica,
A philosophy major, you are my hero, LOL...Jessica,<br /><br />A philosophy major, you are my hero, LOL. I love philosophy what a great thing to major in! <br /><br />Can I tell you how much I love your answer? You got exactly where I was going with the question. :-) I believe most of us will end up at the same place in the end if we are open to all information that is presented to us and how we get there doesn't matter what is important it is that we arrive.<br /><br />BTW thanks for the compliment and making me smile.<br /><br />thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-41103294949507502132010-09-02T19:09:32.420-04:002010-09-02T19:09:32.420-04:00I love watching documentaries on streaming Netflix...I love watching documentaries on streaming Netflix. I was a philosophy major, and it was actually on a class field trip when I first discovered veganism. I've been vegetarian ever since (12 years now) and have tried veganism a few times before, but only in the past 6 months or so has it really been successful for me. And I feel better than ever.<br /><br />I can see two parts of my problem trying to be vegan that are adjacent to what you say. First, I encountered vegans rejecting anyone who doesn't meet a certain vegan standard (even curious newbies); second and related, attaching a "cool" factor and rejecting anyone who doesn't fit a certain image. So if a nutritionally minded person wears leather or isn't cool enough, there will be some pushback. That's sad, but it's also a part of human nature. Everyone wants to differentiate herself or himself. Many vegans may be advocates for the lifestyle and speak its praises and try to help curious individuals become vegan, but others hold themselves up above the inferior others. You would think that the compassion piece of veganism would extend to fellow human beings, but I know it doesn't always. <br /><br />The nutritional piece and ethical piece go together for me. Many of us probably get the question, "where do you get your calcium? your protein? etc..." and it's nice to be able to offer a complete response. Not only is a vegan diet adequate, it can be superior if you eat well. It makes sense, for instance, when you think about the nutritional purpose for milk (to help a baby grow quickly!) that it would not be nutritionally necessary for an older child or an adult. <br /><br />What an interesting question. I agree with your other commenters too who have mentioned that you learn more and do better all the time. You come via nutrition and learn about cruelty and give up your Uggs. Or you come via compassion and experience the nutritional benefits and then learn how to maximize them. (I truly the nutritional information in your posts.)Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14917367078025519399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-77222716850989657112010-09-02T16:49:47.891-04:002010-09-02T16:49:47.891-04:00Rose,
Good point about veggies not being vegan. T...Rose,<br /><br />Good point about veggies not being vegan. The two organic farmers at our market use both fish emulsion and blood meal (I think that is what they called it) which aren't vegan. <br /><br />If you want to get really into it what about the bugs on the produce that you bring home from the market. I sometimes find them at the bottom of the vessel I use to soak my veggies. We could go one for hours on this topic I suspect. <br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-33318172862923527202010-09-02T16:01:10.452-04:002010-09-02T16:01:10.452-04:00Interesting discussion...I agree that it would ext...Interesting discussion...I agree that it would extremely difficult in this day and age to be perfectly 100% vegan...here's one more example:<br /><br />When you buy organic produce it is likely (not always...veganic farms exist but they are not the norm) that the farmer has built his/her soils with animal inputs, such as manures, bone meals etc...these come from slaughterhouses and animal farms...makes for fertile soils, but are the veggies absorbing the nutrients from these soils vegan? <br /><br />You could go on ad infinitum...just thought that was an interesting aside...<br /><br />Incidentally, a new certification program, "Certified Veganic", is currently being developed for farmers in North America; with that certification, veggies can be marketed as veganic/grown without animal inputs.<br /><br />Just thought I'd mention it as it germane to the topic. <br /><br />Happy Thurs! the 3-day weekend is almost here.Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02114977921830686539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-59059142502464251002010-09-02T14:51:16.250-04:002010-09-02T14:51:16.250-04:00Bianca,
Thank you for your kind words. I really ...Bianca,<br /><br />Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate it. :-)<br /><br />I will be posting the recipe for the chickpea mash and veggies later today if you are interested.<br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-44398868730551798912010-09-02T13:55:59.226-04:002010-09-02T13:55:59.226-04:00Love your blog! And the chickpea mash sounds delic...Love your blog! And the chickpea mash sounds delicious. I'm a fan of anything with chickpeas!Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11545245728462853370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-76284593941230925312010-09-02T13:04:44.322-04:002010-09-02T13:04:44.322-04:00Mom,
I used to consider myself a nutritarian as w...Mom,<br /><br />I used to consider myself a nutritarian as well but decided I would prefer no label. In the end I think it is important to be inclusive to help as many people as possible learn to embrace a whole food plant based lifestyle. It is better for the people, animals and the planet. I have considered changing my blog name but I can't come up with something short that gets the idea across. ;-) Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!<br /><br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-9435175187277380682010-09-02T12:43:19.098-04:002010-09-02T12:43:19.098-04:00The Voracious Vegan had an interesting discussion,...The Voracious Vegan had an interesting discussion, "Veganism - Where Do You Draw the Line?", here: http://thevoraciousvegan.com/2010/07/23/veganism-where-do-you-draw-the-line/. The entry, as well a the comments, address some of the same questions: Who is *really* a vegan? How "vegan" does one have to be in order to call herself "vegan"? Do you use cell phones? The towers are responsible for the deaths of migratory birds. Etc. Etc. I'm with many of the commenters here at Vegan Epicurean -- labels that pit "us" against "them" can be troublesome for me, leaving no room for growth, evolution, discovery. <br /><br />I'd use the term "nutrarian" to describe my diet. How wonderful that what is the most nutritious per calorie tends to be what also qualifies as a vegan diet!Queen of Shehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07478776612852276487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-47433199044504623072010-09-02T11:36:46.022-04:002010-09-02T11:36:46.022-04:00Michelle,
I have a very close male friend that is...Michelle,<br /><br />I have a very close male friend that is Muslim and from the Middle East. He is one of the nicest people I have every met and I would trust him with my life. He gets labeled by society and discriminated against and it makes me so angry. I believe labels only serve to exclude people and that can't really ever be good. Just my too cents. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.<br /><br />I find collards go down a little easier than kale. I agree with you kale is a little on the bitter side but I can include more of it in my smoothies now than I could in the past. It is so healthy it is worth trying to cultivate a taste for (or at least a tolerance of). ;-)<br /><br />hope you are having a good Thursday,<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-32818705934024671572010-09-02T11:31:48.117-04:002010-09-02T11:31:48.117-04:00Courtney,
You are my new role model, an entire bu...Courtney,<br /><br />You are my new role model, an entire bunch of kale, wow that is serious nutrition! ;-) I need to work up to that, LOL.<br /><br />I do know your thoughts I was curious what others had to say on the issue since we talked about it yesterday. ;-)<br /><br />talk to you later,<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-71777291951475238922010-09-02T11:29:34.760-04:002010-09-02T11:29:34.760-04:00I agree with Rose and dirtyduck. I do hate how pe...I agree with Rose and dirtyduck. I do hate how people have to label everything these days! It seems everything and everyone is labeled in some form or fashion....sometimes society just stinks.<br />BTW...your smoothie looks good, but it would probably be to green for me too. Maybe I will try collards in a smoothie sometime. Kale is just to bitter for me.Just Ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11168344604438522030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-674043898073688482010-09-02T11:18:34.532-04:002010-09-02T11:18:34.532-04:00I think your smoothie sounds delicious! When I ma...I think your smoothie sounds delicious! When I make smoothies, I usually put in a whole bunch of kale (or collards etc., but kale is my favorite) and I actually love the taste.<br /><br />I think you know my thoughts on the labels and "vegan" issue :-)<br /><br />CourtneyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3790414766945352054.post-41373132722965109602010-09-02T10:14:05.933-04:002010-09-02T10:14:05.933-04:00Heather,
The smoothie wouldn't taste green a...Heather, <br /><br />The smoothie wouldn't taste green at all with spinach, but it also wouldn't be as healthy. I do sometimes use spinach but kale and collards are a better nutritional choice so ...... well you know. ;-)<br /><br />My approach is two lists now. The master list of stuff to-do and then the daily list I creative from the master list. That way I don't have to stare at the big list all day long. *rolls eyes* I hear you on the I didn't get much done. My list for the day is always longer than I can handle. It seems to be human nature to underestimate the time it takes to do things.<br /><br />hope you have a great Thursday!<br />AliVegan Epicureanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203676819322299569noreply@blogger.com